Actual culture flippings in history

[Erik]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

I'm kinda fascinated by the whole deal with culture flipping. I don't know
very much about history, could someone tell me if/where/when/how these
things has occured IRL, or point me to someone/something that can?

Thanks

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Examples:

1. Burgundy culturally flips to France after no heir to the Burgundy
throne.

2. Scotland culturally flips to England upon King Stuart of Scotland
inviting to take the throne in England.

3. Protogual culturally flips to Spain in a merger of crowns. (A 100
years later, successfully revolts against Spain.)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Yes, East Germany culturlly fliped to West Germany.

Poland and the others would be a case of successfully declaring
independence from the USSR.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

What would be more interesting than culture flips would be civil war or
an independence movement. In Call To Power, this was a feature of the
game. If the happiness in cities got low enough, they would break off
and form a new civilization. Neat features and pretty realistic.

It would also make for an interesting espionage feature. Perhaps force a
country into civil war. Now you can encourage a city to revolt. What if
you were able to convince all the cities from a conquered civilization
to revolt. Imagine the headaches for the other player.


Tom Petrocelli

"Never send a monster to the work of an evil scientist" - Evil Scientist
while chasing Bugs Bunny

On 12/8/2004 11:07 AM, joncnunn@yahoo.com wrote:
> Yes, East Germany culturlly fliped to West Germany.
>
> Poland and the others would be a case of successfully declaring
> independence from the USSR.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

IRL, religion and language are the most massive determinants of
cultural allegiances, but both are a product of culture, to an extent.

I think there is culture flipping at play right now in the Ukraine,
which is demanding that Western European cultural institutions like
fair elections and freedom of speech, become Ukrainian cultural
institutions. Russia meanwhile, which has had a tremendous cultural
influence on the Ukraine in the past, is losing it's cultural grip on
at least a portion of the Ukraine. If the Ukraine, or at least a
portion of it, successfully flips to our side, it will be a huge
military and political boon for those of us who live in the Western
democratic nations.

Note: This is a GROSS oversimplification of a complex situation; if you
want the facts and background, do some research.




Erik wrote:
> I'm kinda fascinated by the whole deal with culture flipping. I don't
know
> very much about history, could someone tell me if/where/when/how
these
> things has occured IRL, or point me to someone/something that can?
>
> Thanks

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

well for me one example would be germany, poland etc leaving soviet rule? I
not sure if its the same though

--
From Adam Webb, Overlag
www.tacticalgamer.com
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"Erik" <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote in message
newspsin1abst2kedvn@datorn.bredbandsbolaget.se...
> I'm kinda fascinated by the whole deal with culture flipping. I don't know
> very much about history, could someone tell me if/where/when/how these
> things has occured IRL, or point me to someone/something that can?
>
> Thanks


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 - Release Date: 07/12/2004

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Erik <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote in
newspsin1abst2kedvn@datorn.bredbandsbolaget.se:

> I'm kinda fascinated by the whole deal with culture flipping. I don't
> know very much about history, could someone tell me if/where/when/how
> these things has occured IRL, or point me to someone/something that
> can?


Texas ?

data64

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Actually, I hear that New England is under some very strong culture
pressure from Canada.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Erik" <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote in message
newspsin1abst2kedvn@datorn.bredbandsbolaget.se...
> I'm kinda fascinated by the whole deal with culture flipping. I don't know
> very much about history, could someone tell me if/where/when/how these
> things has occured IRL, or point me to someone/something that can?
>
> Thanks

I could see that maybe in the distant future the whole of New Zealand would
flip over to Australia. Then again, most of the Kiwis are already here, down
at Bondi and collecting the dole ;-)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

data64 <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>> I'm kinda fascinated by the whole deal with culture flipping. I don't
>> know very much about history, could someone tell me
>> if/where/when/how these things has occured IRL, or point me to
>> someone/something that can?
>
> Texas ?

nice try. that was an annexation, usually cultural flips don´t equal
bullets, provocations and wars ;-)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 23:43:02 +0100, "Tomislav Grabic"
<grabic@uni-duesseldorf.de> wrote:

>data64 <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>> I'm kinda fascinated by the whole deal with culture flipping. I don't
>>> know very much about history, could someone tell me
>>> if/where/when/how these things has occured IRL, or point me to
>>> someone/something that can?
>>
>> Texas ?
>
>nice try. that was an annexation, usually cultural flips don´t equal
>bullets, provocations and wars ;-)

I thought the war was with Mexico who they broke off from. I can't
imagine anything but a small settlement would defect without a fight
from their rulers.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On 9 Dec 2004 14:16:46 -0800, joncnunn@yahoo.com wrote:

>Actually, I hear that New England is under some very strong culture
>pressure from Canada.

The only cultural influence Canada has on NE is the sale of weed.
Most New Englanders thing Canada is nuts.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Tomislav Grabic" <grabic@uni-duesseldorf.de> wrote in message
news:cpakb8$867$1@online.de...
> data64 <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>> I'm kinda fascinated by the whole deal with culture flipping. I don't
>>> know very much about history, could someone tell me
>>> if/where/when/how these things has occured IRL, or point me to
>>> someone/something that can?
>>
>> Texas ?
>
> nice try. that was an annexation, usually cultural flips don´t equal
> bullets, provocations and wars ;-)

Are you kidding? They are very much a part of that.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

P12 <nowhere@all.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 23:43:02 +0100, "Tomislav Grabic"
> <grabic@uni-duesseldorf.de> wrote:
>
>> data64 <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>> I'm kinda fascinated by the whole deal with culture flipping. I
>>>> don't know very much about history, could someone tell me
>>>> if/where/when/how these things has occured IRL, or point me to
>>>> someone/something that can?
>>>
>>> Texas ?
>>
>> nice try. that was an annexation, usually cultural flips don´t equal
>> bullets, provocations and wars ;-)
>
> I thought the war was with Mexico who they broke off from.

depends on your point of view.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Nicholas Byram <n.byram@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Tomislav Grabic" <grabic@uni-duesseldorf.de> wrote in message
> news:cpakb8$867$1@online.de...
>> data64 <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>> I'm kinda fascinated by the whole deal with culture flipping. I
>>>> don't know very much about history, could someone tell me
>>>> if/where/when/how these things has occured IRL, or point me to
>>>> someone/something that can?
>>>
>>> Texas ?
>>
>> nice try. that was an annexation, usually cultural flips don´t equal
>> bullets, provocations and wars ;-)
>
> Are you kidding? They are very much a part of that.

true - not in Civ though

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Texas is somewhat complex:

1830s : Declares Independence from Mexico.
(Texan-Mexican War)

Upon Indepence being granted, Texans admire the US culture so much they
declare they want to join, but this is rebuffled!

In the 1840s, Texans agree admire the US culture so much that they want
to join. This time it's accepted. (Difference from Civ 3 where you
don't get a second chance)

US-Mexican war follows, in a tricky way:

US sends an undersized unit thru disputed territory down to the edge of
the disputed territory and waits for it to be attacked. Then the
politicans call it an attack on US soil, and congress declares war.

US conquers the territory it wants, plus takes enough cities for the
Mexican govt to talk peace. (Includes Mexico City.) The US then sends
money + returns the cities it didn't want for peace.

 

[Buck]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 11:32:40 -0500, Tom Petrocelli
<petrocelli@adelphia.net> wrote:

>What would be more interesting than culture flips would be civil war or
>an independence movement. In Call To Power, this was a feature of the
>game. If the happiness in cities got low enough, they would break off
>and form a new civilization. Neat features and pretty realistic.


I like the Civil War idea. It could mean an additional civ to conquer
and/or befriend.


Buck
--
For what it's worth.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Suddenly, Erik, drunk as a lemur, stumbled out of the darkness and
exclaimed:

> I'm kinda fascinated by the whole deal with culture flipping. I don't
> know very much about history, could someone tell me if/where/when/how
> these things has occured IRL, or point me to someone/something that
> can?
>

I would count West Virginia at the start of the ACW as a culture flip.

--
Billy Yank

"Divine Comedy has the hallmarks of a bad fanfic. It's a crossover,
and the author appears in the story as a central character. In fact,
we should all be glad that Dante wasn't into furry."
- Nockermensch

Billy Yank's Baldur's Gate Photo Portraits
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2xvw6/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Actually, I think Texas and California (Bear Flag revolt) both are
cultural flips that the original owner of the cities didn't like and
then attacked. On the Bear Flag revolt:

"The first conquest of California, in 1846, by the Americans, with the
exception of the skirmish at Petaluma and another towards Monterey, was
achieved without a battle. We simply marched all over California, from
Sonoma to San Diego, and raised the American flag without opposition or
protest. We tried to find an enemy, but could not."
>From www.sfmuseum.org

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Here ind Denmark we have an island, (Bornholm) that in 17th og 18th century
had a referendum on were they should belong to Denmark or Sweden. And they
chose Denmark despit the fact that the were Swedish at the time.
In an onther part of Sweden (Skåne) the hat a survey some years back on
where they should belong to Sweden or Denmark. And a third said the would
rather be Danish. So there a potential for culture flipping.

And after a war in 1865, Germany conqued a part of southern Jutland (in
Denmark). But after WWI (in 1921) a referandum was held in the three former
counties. Two chose Germany and one (the most northen) chose Denmark -
flipping from Germany til Denmark.

The German "adoption" of Austria and Czechoslovakia before WWII can also
been seen as "culture flipping" because a large part of the population
rejoice when the german drove into their country.

- Baskedyt

"Billy Yank" <billyUSCOREyank@verizonDOT.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:Xns95BFE765D1E7Ebillyyanknetzeronet@199.45.49.11...
> Suddenly, Erik, drunk as a lemur, stumbled out of the darkness and
> exclaimed:
>
> > I'm kinda fascinated by the whole deal with culture flipping. I don't
> > know very much about history, could someone tell me if/where/when/how
> > these things has occured IRL, or point me to someone/something that
> > can?
> >
>
> I would count West Virginia at the start of the ACW as a culture flip.
>
> --
> Billy Yank
>
> "Divine Comedy has the hallmarks of a bad fanfic. It's a crossover,
> and the author appears in the story as a central character. In fact,
> we should all be glad that Dante wasn't into furry."
> - Nockermensch
>
> Billy Yank's Baldur's Gate Photo Portraits
> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2xvw6/
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 14:55:10 +0100, Baskedyt <mail@Baskedyt.dk> wrote:
>
> And after a war in 1865, Germany conqued a part of southern Jutland (in
> Denmark).

Yes, this is when some of my ancestors left Denmark to come to the USA,
I think. Germany took their land and gave it to german people.

> But after WWI (in 1921) a referandum was held in the three former
> counties. Two chose Germany and one (the most northen) chose Denmark -
> flipping from Germany til Denmark.

Is the island of Sylt (Syld) one of these places?

Dave Hinz

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

> > But after WWI (in 1921) a referandum was held in the three former
> > counties. Two chose Germany and one (the most northen) chose Denmark -
> > flipping from Germany til Denmark.
>
> Is the island of Sylt (Syld) one of these places?

Yes it is. It is in the northen part of the middle county (Slesvig), which
is now part of Germany. The border between Denmark and Germeany runs just
north of Sylt, and that makes it the most northen part of Germany.

> Yes, this is when some of my ancestors left Denmark to come to the USA,
> I think. Germany took their land and gave it to german people.

Well, they didn't gave it to the Germans, they just took it... That part of
Danmark (and now Germany) have always had a large part of Germans and Danes
mixed together, and the areas that a now a part of Germany still have a lot
of Danes. There a still Danish schools, even a High School, and a newspaper.
And by looking at your name (Hinz), a would say that you come from the
German culture, but I can't be sure, because of the mixed cultures...

- Baskedyt

"Dave Hinz" <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:33tah0F43cbb9U8@individual.net...
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 14:55:10 +0100, Baskedyt <mail@Baskedyt.dk> wrote:
> >
> > And after a war in 1865, Germany conqued a part of southern Jutland (in
> > Denmark).
>
> Yes, this is when some of my ancestors left Denmark to come to the USA,
> I think. Germany took their land and gave it to german people.
>
> > But after WWI (in 1921) a referandum was held in the three former
> > counties. Two chose Germany and one (the most northen) chose Denmark -
> > flipping from Germany til Denmark.
>
> Is the island of Sylt (Syld) one of these places?
>
> Dave Hinz

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:36:46 +0100, Baskedyt <mail@Baskedyt.dk> wrote:
>> > But after WWI (in 1921) a referandum was held in the three former
>> > counties. Two chose Germany and one (the most northen) chose Denmark -
>> > flipping from Germany til Denmark.
>>
>> Is the island of Sylt (Syld) one of these places?
>
> Yes it is. It is in the northen part of the middle county (Slesvig), which
> is now part of Germany. The border between Denmark and Germeany runs just
> north of Sylt, and that makes it the most northen part of Germany.
>
>> Yes, this is when some of my ancestors left Denmark to come to the USA,
>> I think. Germany took their land and gave it to german people.
>
> Well, they didn't gave it to the Germans, they just took it... That part of
> Danmark (and now Germany) have always had a large part of Germans and Danes
> mixed together, and the areas that a now a part of Germany still have a lot
> of Danes. There a still Danish schools, even a High School, and a newspaper.
> And by looking at your name (Hinz), a would say that you come from the
> German culture, but I can't be sure, because of the mixed cultures...

My Hinz line is from Pommern; the Danes in my family are Christiansen
(which, in 1860s, may have been a patronym). I'm still working on my
Norwegian lines, but the Danish research will be next since I can already
read the language fairly well.

Thanks for the confirmation on Sylt(d).

Dave Hinz

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

In article <cpakb8$867$1@online.de>,
"Tomislav Grabic" <grabic@uni-duesseldorf.de> wrote:

> data64 <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> >> I'm kinda fascinated by the whole deal with culture flipping. I don't
> >> know very much about history, could someone tell me
> >> if/where/when/how these things has occured IRL, or point me to
> >> someone/something that can?
> >
> > Texas ?
>
> nice try. that was an annexation, usually cultural flips don´t equal
> bullets, provocations and wars ;-)

One day in the future, it is not inconceivable that the proud Texans
could branch off and form their own independent nation state...you know,
when the debt-riddled US national economy implodes, the federal
government becomes intolerably burdensome and ineffective, and China
invades the west coast, etc.

Doug

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

China coudn't invade Taiwan if they wanted to today or tomorrow or in the
next 10 - 15 years, so i thint he west coast is safe from them for a while,
from Mexico however???

"Dave Hinz" <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:34074jF442jjgU1@individual.net...
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:36:46 +0100, Baskedyt <mail@Baskedyt.dk> wrote:
>>> > But after WWI (in 1921) a referandum was held in the three former
>>> > counties. Two chose Germany and one (the most northen) chose Denmark -
>>> > flipping from Germany til Denmark.
>>>
>>> Is the island of Sylt (Syld) one of these places?
>>
>> Yes it is. It is in the northen part of the middle county (Slesvig),
>> which
>> is now part of Germany. The border between Denmark and Germeany runs just
>> north of Sylt, and that makes it the most northen part of Germany.
>>
>>> Yes, this is when some of my ancestors left Denmark to come to the USA,
>>> I think. Germany took their land and gave it to german people.
>>
>> Well, they didn't gave it to the Germans, they just took it... That part
>> of
>> Danmark (and now Germany) have always had a large part of Germans and
>> Danes
>> mixed together, and the areas that a now a part of Germany still have a
>> lot
>> of Danes. There a still Danish schools, even a High School, and a
>> newspaper.
>> And by looking at your name (Hinz), a would say that you come from the
>> German culture, but I can't be sure, because of the mixed cultures...
>
> My Hinz line is from Pommern; the Danes in my family are Christiansen
> (which, in 1860s, may have been a patronym). I'm still working on my
> Norwegian lines, but the Danish research will be next since I can already
> read the language fairly well.
>
> Thanks for the confirmation on Sylt(d).
>
> Dave Hinz
>