Huawei Says China-Made Chips Must Be Used, Even if Inferior
It just probably has to.
Huawei's rotating chairman, Xu Zhijun, emphasized the importance of using domestically produced chips, even if they lag behind foreign counterparts, reports UDN.com. The comment was made in the context of potentially poor yields of the company's Kirin 9000s chip that powers Huawei's Mate 60 Pro series of handsets. Despite China's inferior domestic chips, "if we don't use them, this gap will always be a gap, and lagging behind will always be lagging behind," said Zhijun.
Huawei's latest flagship smartphone, the Mate 60 Pro, has garnered attention for its use of the Kirin 9000s SoC produced in mainland China. Most analysts believe that the application processor is made by SMIC using its 2nd-Gen 7nm-class process technology, presumably called N+2, and supplied to Huawei in violation of the U.S. sanctions.
SMIC's original 7nm-class node called N+1 has only been used to make tiny chips for cryptocurrency mining, so it is generally believed that the yields of a large chip made using N+2 might be low. Furthermore, the performance of the application processor might be lower than competing chips designed in the U.S.
While Huawei and SMIC have managed to bypass the U.S. sanctions, some argue that the alleged 7nm process still significantly lags behind TSMC's, and the Kirin 9000s lags behind Qualcomm's Snapdragon 8 Gen 2. Despite these criticisms, Xu Zhijun remains steadfast in his belief that using these chips is essential for technological growth and bridging the existing gap.
During his speech at the 2023 World Computing Conference, Xu Zhijun highlighted the challenges in the computing industry. He pointed out China's previous struggles with producing certain chips and the achievements of Chinese semiconductor production.
"Previously, we could not even produce network card chips and RAID chips," said Xu Zhijun. "We also could not produce power management chips for a computer server. So, we need to return to the basics of the computing industry."
Xu Zhijun drew a stark comparison between the technological levels of domestic and foreign products. He likened foreign competitors to having doctoral-level expertise, while China's domestic products are at a primary school level. Despite this disparity, he stressed the importance of mainland China developing its tech infrastructure to prevent vulnerabilities and security breaches from external sources.
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The backdrop to this emphasis on domestic production is the ongoing U.S. tech curbs against China. Over 600 Chinese entities find themselves on the U.S. government's entity list, affecting a broad spectrum of the tech sector, from design tools to chip products. Xu Zhijun warns of the long-term challenges for mainland semiconductor manufacturing due to these restrictions and advises against expecting the U.S. to ease its containment.
Anton Shilov is a contributing writer at Tom’s Hardware. Over the past couple of decades, he has covered everything from CPUs and GPUs to supercomputers and from modern process technologies and latest fab tools to high-tech industry trends.
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hotaru251 who knew business says to use homegrown stuff no matter what as said business is largest beneficiary from it happening.Reply -
systemBuilder_49 to produce 7nm chips with 14nm equipment each layer must be split into 2 masks so the 2d frequencies are not too high and then printed in 2 separate steps which introduces twice the probabilities for a fault. Not only that but for a complex cell phone chip it can take 1 full month of compute to perform the splitting step. Yields will never be high and these chips will never reach current-generation speeds due to design, compute, and yield delays.Reply -
roba67 There is such a thing as "good enough". We are paying a high price to keep them from getting the last iota of performance. It has cost US companies 25 or 30 percent of their customer base, it will not be made up by setting up new expensive fabs in the US, they still need customers.Reply -
gg83 I'm surprised the CEO would admit the disparity publicly like that. Primary school vs Dr.?Reply -
bit_user
For a smart phone? Yes.roba67 said:There is such a thing as "good enough".
The difference between "7 nm" and later process nodes is a lot more than an "iota". When you account for not only the single-thread performance, but also the aggregate performance you get when scaling up multi-core CPUs, GPUs, and AI processors on newer nodes, it's actually quite a big difference!roba67 said:We are paying a high price to keep them from getting the last iota of performance.
For instance, just look at the difference between Nvidia's A100, which used TSMC N7 (unlike the rest of the Ampere line), compared with the H100 (which used "4N" - a custom variant of TSMC N5).
Or, look at the difference between AMD's Genoa, which scales up to 96 cores at much higher performance levels, compared with Milan. That's essentially the difference between TSMC N5 vs. N7 - just one node.
Now, you might claim that there other differences between them than just the node, but those differences were largely enabled by the power and density improvements delivered by the new node. When you try to backport a newer design to an older node, it runs way hotter and uses a lot more area, if it's even viable at all. Just look at Rocket Lake.
That's not the point. The stated purpose of the sanctions is aimed at the military applications of advanced technology.roba67 said:It has cost US companies 25 or 30 percent of their customer base, it will not be made up by setting up new expensive fabs in the US, they still need customers. -
Co BIY gg83 said:I'm surprised the CEA would admit the disparity publicly like that. Primary school vs Dr.?
Maybe trying to set reasonable performance expectations for all the new owners of the Mate 60.
And lobby for the government subsidies/support needed to keep going. -
pug_s IMO, android OS fails to take advantage of the better hardware anyways. Huawei Harmony OS is refining the OS experience where Google fail to made any improvements.Reply -
bit_user
Can you please list any examples of what you mean by that?pug_s said:Huawei Harmony OS is refining the OS experience where Google fail to made any improvements. -
tomscomments
Confucius : "One of the most important behaviors that Confucius encourages people to cultivate is self-restraint both in terms of acquiring possessions and in terms of seeking social status and recognition for one’s work."gg83 said:I'm surprised the CEA would admit the disparity publicly like that. Primary school vs Dr.?
My Guess, it is strategic but cultural too. Chinese are impacted by Confucius philosophy. -
bit_user
My guess is that their business strategy is more informed by Sun Tzu's The Art of War and the game of Go, than Confucius. However, I claim no authority on the matter. I did read the aforementioned book - recommended!tomscomments said:My Guess, it is strategic but cultural too. Chinese are impacted by Confucius philosophy.