Nvidia's RTX 50-series drivers feel half-baked, focus too much on MFG
New testing techniques only serve to highlight the problems.
Releasing a new GPU architecture is a complex affair. Nvidia should know this as well as any company, considering it's been making graphics cards for 27 years now, every one of which needed drivers. But the Nvidia Blackwell RTX 50-series GPUs haven't had the smoothest of launches. The RTX 5090 at least offers new levels of performance, while the RTX 5080 delivers only slightly better performance than the prior generation RTX 4080 Super. But both GPUs seem to be suffering from a case of early drivers and the need for additional tuning.
It's not just about drivers, though — or perhaps it is, but for Blackwell, Nvidia recommends new benchmarking methodologies. It presented a case at its Editors' Day earlier this month for focusing more on image quality and analysis, which is always a time-consuming effort. But it also recommended switching from PresentMon's MsBetweenPresents to a new metric: MsBetweenDisplayChange (which I'll abbreviate to MSBP and MSBDC, respectively).
The idea is that MSBDC comes at the end of the rendering pipeline, right as the new frame actually gets sent to the display, rather than when the frame finishes rendering and is merely ready to be sent to the display. It's a bit nuanced, and in theory, you wouldn't expect there to be too much of a difference between MSBDC and MSBP. Intel has also stated that MSBDC is the better metric and recommended using it for the Arc B580 and Arc B570 launches.
Part of the issue with MSBP is that it doesn't necessarily capture information correctly when looking at frame generation technologies. And, in fact, if you try to use MSBP with Nvidia's new MFG (Multi Frame Generation), you get garbage results. This wasn't the case with DLSS 3 framegen, but MFG reports data in a different manner:
All of the fields shown are useful data, but with MFG 4X the values in the MSBP column now function differently. You can view it as the total time required for the GPU to render the frame in the traditional manner, so in this case, it's about 27.66 ms per frame, followed by nearly instant "rendering" times for the three generated frames. The new flip metering hardware in Blackwell GPUs then attempts to evenly pace the actual display of the generated frames on your monitor.
Looking at the MSBDC column, we find a far more consistent sequence of frametimes, as expected. Instead of the "fast-fast-fast-slow" frametimes in the MSBP column, we get relatively similar frametimes of around 7.35 ms per frame. The MsBetweenSimulationStart column ends up giving the timing of user input sampling. So, in this case, the user input sampling happens every 29.18 ms, or at 34.3 FPS, while the generated rate of unique frames sent to the monitor runs at 136.1 FPS — basically four times the input sampling rate, as expected.
The above results, incidentally, are taken from Cyberpunk 2077 benchmarks running at 4K with the RT-Overdrive preset (aka path tracing or full RT), DLSS Quality Transformers upscaling, and MFG4X frame generation. As I noted in the 5080 review, the smoothness of the framerate as seen on the monitor does make the game feel better than if it were running at 34 FPS, but it also doesn't feel like it's running at 136 FPS because input sampling is happening at the base framerate of 34.
But back to the discussion of MSBP and MSBDC, it's a relatively easy "fix" to switch between the two metrics. Also, without using framegen of any form, we'd expect the resulting performance metrics to look pretty similar. But "similar" isn't the same as "identical," and since I already had all of this data, I decided to take a closer look at what's going on and how the new metric affected my benchmark results. It's probably not going to be what you'd expect...
The above gallery shows the 14 graphics cards I've tested (so far...) using our new test suite and PC. There are 22 games, six of which have ray tracing enabled and 16 that are running in pure rasterization mode. Each image shows the same GPU, using the MSBDC metric compared to MSBP, and the third column is the import one as it shows the percentage change — how much better or worse MSBDC is compared to MSBP.
The average framerates are as expected. Whether you measure at the start or end of the rendering process, overall the total time averages out to the same value. There are differences, however, as the data in MSBDC sometimes doesn't appear useful. There are MSBDC values of 0.000 ms at times, and this throws off my formulas, so I just tossed those values.
"Instant" frametimes would pull the average FPS up if included, but I'm not sure what they're supposed to represent, as obviously it should take some amount of time to render and display the next frame. Are they dropped frames or something else? It's not clear, so I asked Nvidia for feedback, as I'm using its FrameView utility to capture these benchmarks. Note also that the lower spec cards (RTX 4060/3060, the Arc cards, and AMD's 7600/XT/6600) were all tested last month using an older version of FrameView that appears to have been more prone to getting 0.000 results for MSBDC.
But really, the changes in the 1% lows are interesting to look at. All of the Intel Arc GPUs show improved 1% lows, increasing by up to 8.3% on average. That's a pretty decent improvement for what would otherwise seem to be a relatively minor change in how performance gets measured. The RTX 3060 and 4060 also show modest improvements, and these were tested with older 566.36 drivers. AMD's GPUs also show modest improvements in minimum FPS.
And then we get to the newer Nvidia cards, which were tested with preview 571.86 drivers — and 572.02 on the 5080. The 4080 Super, 4090, and 5090 all show worse 1% lows at 1080p medium/ultra, and equal or slightly better minimums at 1440p and 4K. The 5090, on the other hand, sees worse typical 1% lows at 1080p and 1440p, and basically equal minimums at 4K. There are plenty of games that show a marked drop in 1% lows as well, while a few see a modest increase.
The RTX 5080, meanwhile, gets a small bump in minimum FPS on average. There are still a few games where it sees a relatively significant drop (Baldur's Gate 3, both Flight Simulators, and A Plague Tale: Requiem), and also some relatively substantial gains in other games (Assassin's Creed Odyssey, Cyberpunk 2077, F1 24, God of War Ragnarok, Hogwarts Legacy, and Star Wars Outlaws).
And it's data like this that makes the drivers and launch of the RTX 5090, in particular, feel rushed. Improving the frame pacing and reducing stutters should be the goal. The RTX 5090, with 32GB of VRAM, appears to have some difficulties here, particularly at 1080p, suggesting the drivers were still a bit undercooked. Most likely, things will improve, but it's also interesting that the 4080 and 4090 lost performance at 1080p as well using the new MSBDC metric with the latest drivers (at the time of testing).
There's also another side note I want to mention: Idle power draw on the RTX 5090 was abnormally high. Like, "AMD RX 7900 XTX at launch" levels of high. The 4080 Super, 4090, and 5080 all tended to idle in the 20~30 watts range. The 5090 seemed to bounce between a low of perhaps 50W, but was often at around 90W. Could that impact performance in some way? Yes. It's yet another item to keep an eye on for the future, as the 50-series GPUs are supposed to be better at idle power, not worse.
The bottom line, as we hopefully conveyed in the 5090 and 5080 reviews, is that Nvidia's driver and software teams still have work to do. That's always the case, but for a new architecture, it's especially true. We'll be retesting the 5090 and 5080 again in the coming weeks (and months) with updated drivers, and my expectation is that 1% lows could see double-digit percentage improvements. Average FPS might see some decent gains as well, though that will probably be more on an individual game basis.
I guess Nvidia was feeling a bit jealous of Intel's "fine wine" approach to drivers.
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Jarred Walton is a senior editor at Tom's Hardware focusing on everything GPU. He has been working as a tech journalist since 2004, writing for AnandTech, Maximum PC, and PC Gamer. From the first S3 Virge '3D decelerators' to today's GPUs, Jarred keeps up with all the latest graphics trends and is the one to ask about game performance.
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A Stoner I think the next generation should have AIX 10XX naming. It seems they have dropped the ball on actual graphics processing in favor of AI generation. I am thinking that my RTX 4090 might have to last more than 2 generations as my primary computer's GPU.Reply -
hotaru251 fake frames aren't real frames. Don't bench what isnt real.Reply
the idea is sound in theory, but it falls apart in practice & on the lower end gpu's its going to show how bad it gets as the lower your frame rate is the more the downsides of MFG is going to be front and center.
i mean ignoring all the gimmicks its still the best gpu on market.evdjj3j said:Yet you still gave the 5090 4 1/2 stars, an almost perfect score.
its not a great deal w/o the gimmicks, but doesnt make it a bad product at the core.
Will say Nvidia needs to go to a longer release window of new gpu's as this "bump" was lame. i'd of ratehr went another yr and got a meaningful improvement that wasn't just MFG which only works in some titles & has serious downsides. -
TheSecondPower I guess Nvidia was feeling a bit jealous of Intel's "fine wine" approach to drivers.
🤣 -
JarredWaltonGPU
Weak-ish launch drivers don't change the fact that it's the fastest GPU available. There are things the 5090 can do that make it compelling, with up to 50% higher performance in some cases compared to the 4090. In the most demanding games at max settings, it's consistently around 30% faster. It's at least a clear improvement in features over the prior gen, with 33% more memory, 78% more bandwidth, and 33% more compute.evdjj3j said:Yet you still gave the 5090 4 1/2 stars, an almost perfect score.
Given the end of Moore's Law scaling, such improvements are better than what we'll typically see going forward.
None of the frames are "real" and ultimately it's important to see what the experience is actually like. I've tried framegen in a variety of games and with a variety of hardware. It's not good for taking sub-30 FPS rendering up to 60 or 100 FPS. It does improve the experience when going from 40+ FPS to ~70 or ~140 FPS. It's not the improvement that the numbers would suggest, but it is an improvement in most cases.hotaru251 said:fake frames aren't real frames. Don't bench what isnt real.
the idea is sound in theory, but it falls apart in practice & on the lower end gpu's its going to show how bad it gets as the lower your frame rate is the more the downsides of MFG is going to be front and center.
Does framegen at 4K ultra on an RTX 4060 work great? No, not in games where the GPU is already running out of VRAM. Does framegen at 1440p with quality or balanced mode upscaling enabled work well on the 4060? Generally yes. You can go from ~50 FPS in various games to ~80 FPS, as reported by the number of rendered and generated frames sent to the display. The feel of the ~80 FPS with framegen ends up being somewhat better than the non-FG result, even if the input rate is lower. -
Colif What does it feel like though? Until you can fake the response of 240 as well its just nice wallpaper.Reply
Games are more than just graphics. Though games companies seem to have forgotten that anyway. Too much time spent making them, not enough on making games fun as well. But I digress. -
Gaidax Well, that is to be expected. I'm sure that in coming months there will be a ton of driver optimizations from Nvidia and improved support from the game devs themselves.Reply
It would be interesting to see a retest half a year down the road, when the ecosystem has matured a bit. I bet there will be a decent ~7% bump average across the board, just from that.
And yeah, we can cry all we like about Nvidia and their partners skinning us from head to toe, but in the end 5090 is the fastest customer GPU ever produced on the planet Earth so far and by a decent margin at that. -
hotaru251
except they are real as ignoring any toggled setting you are rendering frames by default. If my game doesn't support FG/MFG then thats real frames (as in what the card can actually do at all times)JarredWaltonGPU said:None of the frames are "real"
if your gpu is actually rendering 60 frames those are real.
if your gpu is rendering 60 frames and using "ai" to fake180 thats not 200+ frames its 60 frames and going to feel "off" to play with as again MFG's feel is entirely based on the actual frames you can hit w/o it and the more frames you generate w/ it the worse that feeling is.
There is also issue of input latency ballooning w/ it making competitive games that want as minimal latency as possible (while still having as many frames as possible).
again MFG in theory is a good idea, but its not going to work like that as there are downsides given especially given game devs stop trying to optimize games (which would mean higher real frames which benefit fake frames) and just brute force them anymore which lowers performance and benefit of the technology. -
Gaidax
So, if you use DLSS, is that fake frames too? It is that icky "ai" after all too.hotaru251 said:if your gpu is actually rendering 60 frames those are real.
if your gpu is rendering 60 frames and using "ai" to fake180 thats not 200+ frames its 60 frames and going to feel "off" to play with as again MFG's feel is entirely based on the actual frames you can hit w/o it and the more frames you generate w/ it the worse that feeling is.
I'm just trying to get up to speed with the purity test criteria here. -
CelicaGT My issue with Frame Gen, DLSS, FSR, etc is that they are inconsistently executed and can't be counted on to function consistently or even correctly in many titles. Driver revisions often break as often as they fix. Frame Gen has been particularly egregious on this front and as far as I'm concerned, it deserves the scrutiny and derision it gets from the user base. DLSS has been more consistent but still has bleeding and moire issues under motion in most titles. I'm lead to believe the new transformer model solves most of the bleed issues but I'll have to see it for myself on my own system.Reply