San Francisco will spend $212 million to bid 5.25-inch floppy disks goodbye — Muni Metro light rail upgrade represents a $700 million investment
A new $212 million contract with Hitachi Rail will replace the original floppy disk-based system, with the remaining $488 million going toward other key maintenance tasks.

On October 15, the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency (SFMTA) entered into a $212 million contract with Hitachi Rail to get its Muni Metro light rail control system off of floppy disks and an additional $488 million (for a total of $700 million) will go to other key maintenance tasks like replacing the slow, fragile, aged loop cables [h/t Ars Technica].
This isn't the only example in recent memory of a government finally doing away with floppy disks. This past year, we've also covered efforts in Germany and Japan to leave floppy disks behind. We've even covered the SFMTA's prior troubles getting floppies replaced among concerns of "catastrophic failure" potential. In that story, we quoted an SFMTA executive on ABC7 explaining that running rail services was introduced "in an era when computers didn't have hard drives." It's also worth noting that the SFMTA control system uses bulkier 5.25-inch floppy drives, not standard 3.5-inch floppies or larger 8-inch floppies.
Speaking to Ars Technica in April, SFMTA spokesperson Michael Roccaforte explained the current floppy-reliant Automatic Train Control (ATCS) system: "When a train enters the subway, its onboard computer connects to the train control system to run the train in automatic mode, where the trains drive themselves while the operators supervise. When they exit the subway, they disconnect from the ATCS and return to manual operation on the street."
Roccaforte also explained to Ars Technica separately that the existing ATCS cables are incredibly fragile and have "less bandwidth than an old AOL dial-up modem." This makes plans to upgrade the communications systems alongside replacing floppy drives seem near-essential to modernize the Muni Metro rail system. The days of networking in kilobytes instead of megabytes (or sometimes even gigabytes) are long past us.
As of now, the SFMTA's complete Muni Metro overhaul is expected to be completed in 2033 or 2034. The short-term communications overhaul, which will replace cables and floppies, is expected to be finished by 2027 or 2028, followed by an "on-street technology installation phase." This date roughly lines up with the original 2028 goal date for replacing the floppy disks currently used for the control system.
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Christopher Harper has been a successful freelance tech writer specializing in PC hardware and gaming since 2015, and ghostwrote for various B2B clients in High School before that. Outside of work, Christopher is best known to friends and rivals as an active competitive player in various eSports (particularly fighting games and arena shooters) and a purveyor of music ranging from Jimi Hendrix to Killer Mike to the Sonic Adventure 2 soundtrack.
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emike09 Insane that they're still using 5.25" floppies. I started learning computers when 5.25" was still common, but 3.5" was quickly becoming the new standard. 35 years ago. Are they going to replace them with zip disks?Reply -
tom2tec This happens because the greedy people in charge direct all the financial resources towards their own salaries, pensions and benefits so there's nothing left over for upgrades. This is typical in a corrupt self-serving and irresponsible bureaucracy.Reply -
Co BIY Do they even bother to collect fares ?Reply
Does the ridership justify further investment ? To invest nearly a Billion dollars I'd want to hear more about what the city is getting for it's money.
Annual rides - 24.3 Million. -
subspruce
this is the chicken and egg problem of transit. oh wait this is tomshardware not NotJustBikes comment sectionCo BIY said:Do they even bother to collect fares ?
Does the ridership justify further investment ? To invest nearly a Billion dollars I'd want to hear more about what the city is getting for it's money.
Annual rides - 24.3 Million. -
bradhouser Co BIY said:Do they even bother to collect fares ?
Does the ridership justify further investment ? To invest nearly a Billion dollars I'd want to hear more about what the city is getting for it's money.
Annual rides - 24.3 Million.
Fares cover about 25% of the expenses. Public transit if heavily subsidized.
https://www.sfmta.com/system/files/finance/fy2023_sfmta_financial_statements_-_final.pdf
2023 : (Thousands)
Total operating revenues $ 350,656
Total operating expenses $ 1,423,618
These agencies do not plan for upgrades, they defer them while the costs keep going up. -
Co BIY bradhouser said:Fares cover about 25% of the expenses. Public transit if heavily subsidized.
https://www.sfmta.com/system/files/finance/fy2023_sfmta_financial_statements_-_final.pdf
2023 : (Thousands)
Total operating revenues $ 350,656
Total operating expenses $ 1,423,618
These agencies do not plan for upgrades, they defer them while the costs keep going up.
When you waste three dollars for every dollar you bring in doing nothing is about the best thing you can do!
Busses are almost always a much better public transit solution. Totally flexible but no "Sexy" and much smaller more manageable contracts that no one gets rich on. -
Co BIY subspruce said:this is the chicken and egg problem of transit. oh wait this is tomshardware not NotJustBikes comment section
What is the chicken and egg problem here?
They have a well established system , fully built out. They already provide free rides to anyone under 20, over 65 or disabled or poor. Where is the demand going to come from?
Don't understand the "Notjustbikes" comment. I'm fairly pro bike. Of course no one is taxing me to pay for their bike. -
Co BIY tom2tec said:This happens because the greedy people in charge direct all the financial resources towards their own salaries, pensions and benefits so there's nothing left over for upgrades. This is typical in a corrupt self-serving and irresponsible bureaucracy.
I see no evidence presented that there are greedy people dragging down the public transit system in arguably the most progressive city in America.
Seems like a lack of demand and inefficient delivery typical of rail solutions unsuitable to anything except the most densely populated cities in the world. You need a density and total population similar to Tokyo, London or New York for metro rail to work. That excludes most cities. -
tom2tec
You see no evidence that public officials are overpaid? You obviously aren't looking. Six figure salaries while poor people are homeless, hungry and dying on our streets. This sound like an affluent person who never bothers to look down and see how many others are suffering so you can enjoy your privileges... that doesn't sound very 'progressive', just saying.Co BIY said:I see no evidence presented that there are greedy people dragging down the public transit system in arguably the most progressive city in America.
Seems like a lack of demand and inefficient delivery typical of rail solutions unsuitable to anything except the most densely populated cities in the world. You need a density and total population similar to Tokyo, London or New York for metro rail to work. That excludes most cities. -
Co BIY tom2tec said:You see no evidence that public officials are overpaid? You obviously aren't looking. Six figure salaries while poor people are homeless, hungry and dying on our streets. This sound like an affluent person who never bothers to look down and see how many others are suffering so you can enjoy your privileges... that doesn't sound very 'progressive', just saying.
True, I haven't seen many drug addicted homeless people supporting my extravagant lifestyle. But I'm not in the Bay Area where they are such a large and important part of the productive economy.